Curse

Wahoo · Sep 14, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

This may be controversial, but I'm going to keep it short and sweet. Prior to the Official Ladder Season (read:until now), players have had the opportunity to increase their Guild Ranking in GvG battles or individual renown in the Tomb of Primeval Knights.

As a result, those who've participated -by and large- have experienced a fair deal of trends, learned ALOT about the dynamics of the game, and generally had a fair deal of fun to boot.

In response to questions about "Ladder stagnation," that is, the situation of Top Ranking Guilds becoming bogged down in the amount of wins they've incurred and essentially *ceasing* to GvG - thusly, implanting themselves in a top ranking and causing a domino effect all the way down the totem pole, Arena.Net has responded by announcing an Official Ladder Season - a literal wiping of the chalkboards to allow new and fresh competition and even chance. This idea has been embraced by the GuildWars community.

Now, why stop there? Surely, shouldn't individual renown be treated equally?

With the addition of skill balances (

), the Faction system (

), and various other tweaks, PvP has drastically changed from the first few weeks of release. As frustrated as numerous guilds have become with the inability to increase their ranking, individual players looking for fame are bound to become equally (if not more) frustrated by a similar threat - /rank stagnation.

With the opening of the new ladder season, why not reset Fame alongside with Guild Ratings? While this idea may strike a chord with a small amount of players, those whom I've openly discussed the idea with (mind you, these players ranged from rank 10 to 3) have supported it - albeit with an immediate acknowledgement that, in the perfect world, it'd be implemented.

Bear with me for another moment - what percentage of /rank 9+ players these days earned their emote without Ranger Spirit Spam builds? Let's hop ahead two months from now - what percentage of /rank 6+ players earned their emote without IWAY? Do not be mistaken, I'm not coming down on these builds...I'm just illustrating a point that with the essential "balance" of PvP should be a complete follow-through on behalf of Arena.Net.

As an afterthought, wouldn't it be sweet if there were more /rank 6+ emotes? If /rank were an authoritative system, it'd be nice to add a little more order to it. And, besides, we all love those emotes.

Thoughts and constructive criticism are appreciated, but please refrain from testimonials of "I earned my /rank 9 without <insert build>." I'm not accusing you of cheating. The intention of this post is to hopefully bring about a potentially missed aspect of a completely balanced PvP game.

Last but not least, please rate this thread accordingly.

DarkWasp · Sep 14, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

I'd have to agree with you a bit here...

I personaly think there should be an emote for every rank.
For rank 1 and 2 i'd suggest nothing flashy like the deer, because alot of people will have those emotes and over use them.

And they ability to type the number of your older rank, EXAMPLE:

You are rank 9 but want to do the deer, so you type /rank 3.

Fr3sH · Sep 14, 2005, 05:32 PM // 17:32

I dont think resetting the rank is a good idea, because players need to have something that they achieve and retain.

Instead, what if guildwars changed the ranking system so that newer generations of pvpers in tombs can achieve rank 1 faster?

IE: Make rank1 only require 5 fame, rank 2 require 15, 3 require 40, and so on?

Also with that, GW needs to add emotes for each rank. However make the lower ranks' emote relatively small, or else the whole map will be spammed with rank spammers. (If its a small emote, it wont be much of a bother, maybe like a butterfly or something for rank1?)

Wahoo · Sep 14, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr3sH

I dont think resetting the rank is a good idea, because players need to have something that they achieve and retain.

I had anticipated that response, and can't disagree with your reasoning. However, do you believe the measure is that drastic? Your thoughts are appreciated.

It is a short-term sacrifice on behalf of those players who may be slightly reluctant to part with their "earnings"...but to those players who believe that Fame should be an indication of player skill - how difficult should it be to reobtain that which is rightfully theirs on an even playing field? If you ask me, those who deserve it will wind up back where they would've been anyway.

The idea is meant to rectify unseen consequences of skillsets that were not completely ready for the PvP scene. To draw another reason (if the previous is not to the liking of players), it syncs up with the Official Ladder Season - which is essentially a "Spring Cleaning" for GvG PvP anyway.

There's no denying that Guild Ranking will be reset - as this is only fair...but the parallel issue of altering player renown is equally sensitive.

To add on my suggestion (hopefully without overly complicating the matter) -

How about including a residual nature to /rank...something that can draw on previous Fame standings in past Ladder Seasons? To make it simple, how about color coding /rank emotes as a measure of how a player has performed over the long run?

Let's assume for a moment that Fame were revolutionized as a means of exhibiting individual player renown over that Ladder Season. As a result, there's a need to better one's character for the emotes over the short-term (as long as the Ladder is going on), however, a long-term measure of one's past performance (color coded deer [3], wolves[6], tigers[9], dragons[12]) indicates your "individual" performance in the tombs over all past ladder seasons.

At the risk of hijacking this thread, I'd like to suggest an addendum to the "individual" player renown concept - 5 Fame for every 5 wins in Team Arenas! As an "individual" measure of skill, it's an injustice to make Fame obtainable only through teamplay with seven others. Granted, I understand the importance of teamwork in Guildwars, it's only my opinion that a second outlet for a more intimate PvP scene (with a slower Fame gain than Tombs) would be appropriate. Alas, I digress. Followed an example of the Color coded system that I would like to suggest in order to preserve the sense of player accomplishment in PvP.

A simple example:

Ladder Season One: You achieve rank 9 (your deer, wolf, and tiger are gold - the color we've all come to know and love)

Ladder Season Two: You're more active in GvG, tombing only when there's little to no guild activity. You achieve rank 3 (your deer is now orange)

Ladder Season Three: You're now guildless, but a close group of contacts allows you to tomb relatively often. You reach rank 12. (Your deer is now Red, Wolf and Tiger was orange [2nd occurence], your Dragon is now gold)

and so on... just for kicks, let's pretend the hierarchy is:
Gold->Orange->Red->Purple->Blue->...->White->Silver->Black

As a result, Fame can now be implemented as a resetable function because players still have *something* to strive for. There would still be an ability to group with players of like experiences, and the bragging rights would become more unique to a particular player's journey through Guildwars.

And honestly, who wouldn't like to see one of those imfamous PvP know-it-alls /rank his Red Dragon only to be shut down by a Black one?

Timoz · Sep 14, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Hmm, interesting thoughts. You obviously took your time over this..

Personally i think the ladder should have been reset when spirit spamming was nerfed, to do it now would really wreck pvp and the only time they can reset the fame next would have to be the next major skill balance.

My reason being for this and i will name names, how many times have you seen Marvel Superheroes win in the hall since spirit spam nerf?
None.

(strange how a sudden inactiveness occured in many 'top' guilds after the skill balance.)

..And how many other guilds were there which we saw over the spirit spam months doing well... so many.
..And where are they now? oh, they're gone.. and the players now have high ranks due to this. That was like fame farming, that was why skill needed balancing, and that was why fame NEEDED resetting.

IMO, Anet missed the chance they should have taken to reset the fame, doing so now would strip away well earned fame through more thought out builds.. (excluding IWAY)

You mentioned recieving fame through team arenas, would be interesting to see how it works out on a smaller scale, but remember there would be no hall of hero's, just repeated maps. Maybe its better off as it is.

The idea about colours seems to make sense and people wouldn't feel like they've wasted effort and time on fame from the past..

Wahoo · Sep 14, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

In response to your suggestion that many guilds have become inactive - I believe a respectable amount of the Guildwars player base is between the ages of 14-21, Fall semester (quarter) for Americans has just begun. I can speak for myself when I say I've gotten significantly busier, as have most of my guildmates.

I think that's a fact of life that applies across the board for many American (or Canadian) guilds.

In reference to Marvel Superheroes, it's affected them as well. On the other hand, I often play in pUGs with some of them and can vouch that those that I know are as skilled as you'd hope a /rank 9 player to be. Notwithstanding, your frustrations seem valid, only misdirected.

It's difficult to push the blame on any particular party when it's the system that's failing us at this point in time. I can honestly say I *hope* to be present the next time the Almighty Frog makes himself known, as I would be honored to express my ideas and concerns directly to him. Excellent feedback, btw.

ShadowWrath · Sep 15, 2005, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr3sH

IE: Make rank1 only require 5 fame, rank 2 require 15, 3 require 40, and so on?

I'd still be rank 0.

So resetting wouldn't matter to me. ^.^

Wahoo · Sep 15, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowWrath

I'd still be rank 0.

So resetting wouldn't matter to me. ^.^

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble playing in the current system. Unfortunately, I've experienced the same thing firsthand - I've recently encouraged my roommate to start playing GuildWars.

He loves it.

His *only* gripe (sadly, it's one he's facing often) is finding a Tombs group when I'm not around to join in. Apparently, the groups he'd like to join in (ones that are capable of the fast-paced gameplay there) don't give him a chance without a verifiable /rank and the groups he reluctantly joins only last for one or two fame - only to be beaten by more coordinated guild groups. So what are his options? Give up on his very own "deer" by playing in the "easier" area (Team Arenas) that doesn't award fame or only play when I'm around.

I think having an incomplete system in place is an injustice - to you, to my roommate, and to hundreds of players who experience similar situations.

Recapping my position -

1. Obtainable /rank should exist alongside Ladder Seasons. It resets as the GuildWars Ladder does - with the implementation of major skill balance changes, at set intervals, with ample notice for all.

2. Though /rank-ing Fame resets every now and then, your progress will not. A color-coded order could be implemented (See Screenshots & Scenarios on page one) in order to track long-term progress throughout the Ladder Seasons. The desire to play still holds water - the average player is playing for Faction (provided there's still a need for it), for Fame (to achieve a /rank emote in the <x> months which it is displayable), and for the Color (in my opinion the part that would keep players over the long-term between content overhauls and major updates).

3. Add a small Fame gain to the Team Arenas. Specifically - 5 Fame every 5 wins. This sort of implementation would coincide with the extra Faction gain for every 5 consecutive wins, parallel the central message of "individual renown" (if 4v4 isn't more personal than an 8v8 round robin, I don't know what is), PLUS the added Fame would give a successful team starting in the Competition Arenas an incentive to continue fighting against presumably harder teams! 5 Fame every 5 wins is a perfect measurable amount. It is not too much for a team of four who decides to spend a few hours in the Team Arenas (a run like this took this group about two hours):

A quick number crunch would reward this team with 65 Fame for their efforts. Is that unreasonable? Let's compare these figures with a successful Tombs team of 8 fighting for two hours. Assuming each battle is ~9 minutes long, we fit 14 battles in, rounded down, not including the Lobby or waits between battles.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Fame gain is: 1-2-3-4-6-8-12-16-20-40...
so our hypothetical battle yields (1+2+3+4+6+8+12+16+20+40+40+40+40+40) = 272 fame. And that's for 8 people.

The total Fame gain in our Team Arena scenario is approximately 25% of the gain that twice the amount of organized people could've earned on a particular afternoon or evening. One fourth of the reward in Team Arenas is hardly too much to ask.

But enough about me.
What do you think?

Rieselle · Sep 15, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

The problem with the naive implementation of your idea is that Fame is purely based off HoH wins... therefore your system favours players who play a lot more often, rather than more skillfully.

However, if Fame was based off Wins/Losses in a similar way to Guild Rating, then it would be fair to reset fame at the start of every season. However... it might result in the same timidity to play that the Guild Rating system does to guilds. Maybe add a decay? (Like, if you havent played at least once in a week, your rating decays. Or maybe, for every 24 hours of GAME TIME where you havent played HoH, your rating decays.)

Another thing in favour of the current system is.... sure, those high fame players might have gotten it via Spirit Spam or something, but at least they've played THAT MANY hoh games in a semi-organised group, right? Which speaks for experience at least. Compare that to me - I have about 20 fame, because I hardly ever play HoH. I might (or not) be a good player, but the undisputable fact is, those guys have played HoH a heck of a lot more than me. So they deserve their fame, however they got it.

Wahoo · Sep 15, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Like you said, there's no denying the fact that all of the players with a rank spent a great deal of time earning it. As a result, it's hard to argue that they don't deserve it.

By no means was that my intention.

The only problem I see with the current Fame system is the ability for new players (like my roommate and poster ShadowWrath) is that the current /rank system as it stands inherently excludes those who wish to enter the competition without connections.

By giving players a "blank slate" at the start of each ladder season, people are encouraged to group with others without judging solely on /rank, yet there's also the concept of working for what's rightly yours over time.

The idea still rewards skill over time spent. To argue otherwise implies that the current system in place does otherwise. Honestly, the idea of collecting static Fame is not very appealing to me. In my opinion, the ideas I've placed in this thread would serve to foster a much more intimate connection between players and the account(s) they own.

Timoz · Sep 15, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wahoo

In reference to Marvel Superheroes, it's affected them as well. On the other hand, I often play in pUGs with some of them and can vouch that those that I know are as skilled as you'd hope a /rank 9 player to be. Notwithstanding, your frustrations seem valid, only misdirected.

To clear that up i've also played with some of them and against them so its not having a random go at them and not unjustified

... directed at other guilds as well.

eh.. the probability of winning all those battles in the tomb as compared to the TA is much lower.
Thats why the TA's are generally used for testing and people implement ideas in the tombs. I can see why after 65 wins you'd want some kind of reward, that is a lil harsh.

Another thing, extra fame for flawless victories, pls introduce it.. i don't know why its not as the only bonus you get atm is faction

Navaros · Sep 16, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

resetting fame is the worst suggestion ever

you can not flush hundred of thousands of hours of fame grinding from countless legions of players down the toilet like that.

if there was a fame reset i personally would declare Guild Wars to be the worst game ever on every forum known to mankind, as would millions of other players i'm sure

the backlash would be enormous (and rightfully so)

/anti-signed

Timoz · Sep 16, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

As big as the backlash would be, think how this would encourage others to pvp more and lower ranks would be happy as their on level terms with higher ranks. If you're that good surely you wouldn't need to moan and you'd get up ranks again quickly?
Maybe your not so good i don't know. Other high ranked players i've talked to wouldn't have a problem with this, but as wahoo suggested, change the colours of emotes to show people used to have high ranks maybe.

BUT like i said before, i think Anet missed the chance they had to reset the ladder and the fame for now.

Navaros · Sep 16, 2005, 01:33 PM // 13:33

incorrect. no one would PVP more. almost everyone would simply quit.

most players have to claw and bite relentlessly to get fame points. it takes eons to amass fame!

to strip away all the heavy time investments of players who have spent countless hours struggling to form Tombs parties that would be competent, with a fame reset, would be an unspeakable atrocity against the playerbase

only players in super elite Guilds would be able to amass their fame back in anything that bears any resemblance whatsoever to a reasonable amount of time

for everyone else, it would be a horrifically loathsome re-grind.

Wahoo · Sep 16, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

resetting fame is the worst suggestion ever

if there was a fame reset i personally would declare Guild Wars to be the worst game ever on every forum known to mankind, as would millions of other players i'm sure
/anti-signed

...

to strip away all the heavy time investments of players who have spent countless hours struggling to form Tombs parties that would be competent, with a fame reset, would be an unspeakable atrocity against the playerbase

Would you still feel this way if current fame were included as the initial part of the sum? (In otherwords, the next time you reached rank 3, your /rank would be orange instead)... Surely, your <insert tiger,wolf,stag> could not be so dear to you that you'd threaten and blackmail Arena.Net for attempting to rectify a dead-end situation. There's really no other way to describe Fame as it stands.

I believe in your fervor, you've neglected to notice other aspects that have been mentioned for Fame gain - let's say you and a team of friends in the Team Arenas win about 30 matches - netting about 30 fame in 50 minutes. A respectable amount for a nice run...admittedly, I rarely earn that much in a single day of Tombing. Doing that little could net you rank 3 in as little as 6 hours.

Is that a loathesome grind?

I can't agree with your sentiments about that. While Fame isn't easy for everyone to obtain, there have been numerous suggestions as to how to make it more accessible, more unique, and introducing a replayability factor into the equation.

To declare that you'd simply quit if such a change were introduced suggests to me that you're either short-sighted or perhaps even done with the game already.

The negative criticism is a welcome change to the topic, but please don't include a doomsday scenario with your opinions. That's how flaming starts and my thread gets hijacked.

Wahoo · Sep 16, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I missed a chance to add another thought into my previous post. Rather than editing, I thought it deserved a mention on its own.

First of all, I appreciate Navaros mention of a likely initial misunderstanding of the new system. Time heals most wounds, and eventually many should come to realize (*hopefully*) that it isn't such a bad thing...and if it is, it surely is more enjoyable for the majority than what used to be. Regardless, your post serves to validate several previous points made in this thread. Quoting:

Quote:

no one would PVP more. almost everyone would simply quit.

Sounds familiar to ShadowWraith's comment-

Quote:

I'd still be rank 0.

So resetting wouldn't matter to me.

or how about this one-

Quote:

[my roommate's] *only* gripe (sadly, it's one he's facing often) is finding a Tombs group when I'm not around to join in. Apparently, the groups he'd like to join in (ones that are capable of the fast-paced gameplay there) don't give him a chance without a verifiable /rank and the groups he reluctantly joins only last for one or two fame - only to be beaten by more coordinated guild groups. So what are his options? Give up on his very own "deer" by playing in the "easier" area (Team Arenas) that doesn't award fame or only play when I'm around.

Which segways nicely into your next point-

Quote:

most players have to claw and bite relentlessly to get fame points. it takes eons to amass fame!

That's not how one should feel about it. Adding another outlet through which players can gain Fame in a more personal setting helps to rectify the situation.

Let's use my hypothetical example from the previous posts as a measure of time taken vs. rank.

W/R "IWAY Ftw" and friends play in Team Arenas for 50 minutes and win 30 consecutive wins. Kudos. They earn 5 fame every 5 wins, netting 30 for their accomplishments.

Exhillarated by the "skill over time spent" rewarding nature of the new and improved Team Arenas, they decide to get together every day and play this way; One hour a day on weekdays and two hours a day on weekends.

Just for kicks, they started on a Monday.
Just for kicks, they're really good and never lose before 30 wins.

By Wednesday evening (day 3), they've already amassed 90 Fame. Rank 2!

Halfway into Saturday (day 5), they four of them have 180 Fame. /rank!

The following Friday night (day 9), they hit 400 fame! Rank 4. What troopers!

Two weeks later (day 26), they guys are now Rank 6 with tigers! And that's only because they've played every day. Awesome!

Day 103 (Month 3, Week 1, Day 4) is Rank 9. They've come a long way for it, but it was hardly a loathesome grind.

Ask "IWAY Ftw" and friends for yourself, they'll Tiger you in the face.

And special thanks to Timoz for coming back into this thread. I value your opinion and think you've made valuable suggestions thusfar. I'm pleased to hear I haven't been talking to an unusual sample of the high-ranking playerbase. It's a relief to hear others in-game with rank 9+ also support this sacrificial measure.

Lily · Sep 16, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

while i dont agree with you about resetting fame, i do really think the colour coding is a great idea, and heres how i think it could be implemented:
rank 3 deer would be normal colour
rank 4 deer would be orange
rank 5 deer would be red

so you could show off your rank 7 by having a different colour wolf as a rank 6. this would make it more exciting as you would feel as if you are achieving something quicker, and anet would not have to make each rank a seperate emote.

i like the idea of fame in arena as well, but 5 per 5 wins might be a little much, since the average arena match lasts much shorter than a tombs match, and its also much easier to win in arena.

Navaros · Sep 16, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wahoo

The negative criticism is a welcome change to the topic, but please don't include a doomsday scenario with your opinions. That's how flaming starts and my thread gets hijacked.

i don't mean to hijack your thread. however, your suggestion of resetting fame would indeed cause the doomsday of Guild Wars, should it be implemented

and the reason i'm so passionate about arguing against things like this is because as an active player who has had my gameplay experience shafted to a large extent by dumb suggestions of other players that were included and forced upon me in the Furnace update, i now realize that opposition to dumb suggestions must be voiced loudly and articulately lest more of them be included and my and other players' gameplay experience get ruined even more

i play PVP on a regular basis. you are suggesting to rob me of my hundreds of hours (literally) that i've spent waiting around in the Tombs lobby for a full party of competent players. all the grinding i had to do to convince good players to let me in their party despite me not being rank 6. all the negotiating and aggressive scouring that i had to do for good parties. all the dozens upon dozens of times that i've had to wait more than one hour of real-time for a Tombs party to form, only to have it defeated in the first 10 minutes after we've only won 3 fame points. and then everyone "has to go" and it takes at least another hour to get another decent party going in the hopes that maybe i might get another 3 fame points after that hour. you wanna mess with fame? then you can darn well expect some serious dissent! i earned my fame the hard way. i don't have a super leet Guild to rack up easy fame points with me. for me each and every point is earned only after tons of effort and patience. keep in mind that for everything i've said about myself in this paragraph, there are tons and tons of other players who no doubt feel exactly the same way about their fame. because they've had to get it in the exact same way as i did.

on playing PVP regularly, i have noticed that the PVP playerbase has gotten a lot smaller in recent weeks. i wager the main reason for this is because most players have no patience to endure all that crap i just listed. yet that is the essence of Guild Wars PVP. unless they endure that crap, then there is no point even trying to get fame (unless they are in a really good Guild). many choose the much simpler option to just quit. that is why the PVP playerbase is already shrinking drastically. to reset fame would be the straw that breaks the backs of those who chose to put up with all the strife and try to achieve fame anyhow. they too would join their bretheren who have already left with a loud unanimous shout of "enough is enough".

your suggestions to get fame in other ways besides Tombs are not good either. yes grinding fame for rank is tedious and hard, but the good part of it is that most people don't have emotes. that makes emotes special. with your suggestions to add fame to non-Tombs areas, it will destroy the whole point of emotes. then everyone and his mother is going to have an emote, hence there would be no purpose whatsoever to having one. which would also ruin PVP, because PVP would have no worthwhile reward.

if you wanna suggest a button so that you can reset your own fame only , then go for it. i could care less. but you can't be trying to take away everyone else's who wants to keep theirs, and then expect not to be opposed vehemently

Wahoo · Sep 16, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

you are suggesting to rob me of my hundreds of hours (literally) that i've spent waiting around in the Tombs lobby for a full party of competent players. all the grinding i had to do to convince good players to let me in their party despite me not being rank 6. all the negotiating and aggressive scouring that i had to do for good parties. all the dozens upon dozens of times that i've had to wait more than one hour of real-time for a Tombs party to form, only to have it defeated in the first 10 minutes after we've only won 3 fame points. and then everyone "has to go" and it takes at least another hour to get another decent party going in the hopes that maybe i might get another 3 fame points after that hour. [...] for me each and every point is earned only after tons of effort and patience. keep in mind that for everything i've said about myself in this paragraph, there are tons and tons of other players who no doubt feel exactly the same way about their fame. because they've had to get it in the exact same way as i did.

on playing PVP regularly, i have noticed that the PVP playerbase has gotten a lot smaller in recent weeks. i wager the main reason for this is because most players have no patience to endure all that crap i just listed. yet that is the essence of Guild Wars PVP. unless they endure that crap, then there is no point even trying to get fame (unless they are in a really good Guild). many choose the much simpler option to just quit. that is why the PVP playerbase is already shrinking drastically. to reset fame would be the straw that breaks the backs of those who chose to put up with all the strife and try to achieve fame anyhow. they too would join their bretheren who have already left with a loud unanimous shout of "enough is enough".

your suggestions to get fame in other ways besides Tombs are not good either. yes grinding fame for rank is tedious and hard, but the good part of it is that most people don't have emotes. that makes emotes special. with your suggestions to add fame to non-Tombs areas, it will destroy the whole point of emotes. then everyone and his mother is going to have an emote, hence there would be no purpose whatsoever to having one. which would also ruin PVP, because PVP would have no worthwhile reward.

The following is directly pulled from GuildWars website:
The Official Guildwars Website

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildwars.com Developers

What kind of game is Guild Wars?

Guild Wars is a global online roleplaying game. Players can engage in cooperative group combat, in single player adventures, or in large head-to-head guild battles. Guild Wars is a mission-based game set in a stunning 3D fantasy world that offers excellent support for guilds. Because the team that developed Guild Wars had experience creating successful online game series such as Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo, the members used their familiarity with the complex issues surrounding online games to create a game that is both easy to learn and compelling to play long term, and yet does not require players to spend hundreds of hours slogging through the preparation just to get to the fun bits.

Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?

Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences. Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, loot stealing, and standing in a queue in order to complete a quest.

Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. In Guild Wars much of the tedium of traveling through the world has been eliminated. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they have previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.

Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-vs-guild warfare or the international tournament. Engaging in combat is always the player's choice, however; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.

Players in Guild Wars can play with or against players from around the world in the global tournaments and arenas. And while players are initially placed in a region based on their selected language (so that there is a greater likelihood that others will be speaking their language) they can join up in the always-available International District to form parties and to play with anyone from anywhere in the world.

I urge you to read the bold and italicized quotations. Clearly, you've expressed that you're not satisfied with the state-of-the-art PvP scene currently in-game. If I may ask a quick off-topic question - have you enjoyed the grind thusfar? To suggest that others who don't envision the same atmosphere for GuildWars don't deserve equal Fame notoriety is sadistic and completely against the core message that the developers have been building upon.

There is always room for improvement. GuildWars is no exception. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, but if the Developers ever decide to build upon their core concept - I truly hope you can find it in yourself to realize that it's what they've been saying all along.

If you want a grind, try Blizzard's World of Warcraft.

Deathlord · Sep 16, 2005, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I support this idea and can understand where you're coming from. I especially enjoy the color-coding reason because it would also help show the experience the player has throughout multiple ladders, but I'm not exactly sure of the team arena fame-reward sequence. Although I would love for my new Team Arena consecutives to give me something to help ease my HOH-party-searchness, I still think the amount at it gives is too large. The level of competition in team arena is hardly comparable to late HOH stages and I just think 1/4th of the reward is still too much (Even 1/4th is questionable because unless you can maintain a constant flow of 7 good people to play with, you would be stuck with hours of searching for a party that might only rack up 1 to 10 fame, which has a HUGE difference compared to 282 fame in 2 hours.). Other that, I'm quite interested in how multiple fame-resetting ladders will work out. . However, I haven't been playing much for the past month therefore my loss is hardly comparable to those who have gathered up thousands of fame so there could be a completely horrid side to this which I just can't see.